Alameda and Belisario throwing a fair die.a probability question about throwing an irregular fair dieRolling...

Second-rate spelling

Infrastructure damage from sudden thickening of water

Reason why dimensional travelling would be restricted

Linear regression when Y is bounded and discrete

When was drinking water recognized as crucial in marathon running?

Is divide-by-zero a security vulnerability?

I can't die. Who am I?

Where is the line between being obedient and getting bullied by a boss

What does 'open position for bachelor project' actually mean?

If a druid in Wild Shape swallows a creature whole, then turns back to her normal form, what happens?

Are paired adjectives bad style?

What's the difference between a cart and a wagon?

What do the pedals on grand pianos do?

Is my plan for fixing my water heater leak bad?

How do ISS astronauts "get their stripes"?

Test pad's ESD protection

What is the wife of a henpecked husband called?

Real life puzzle: Unknown alphabet or shorthand

What is better: yes / no radio, or simple checkbox?

Why is working on the same position for more than 15 years not a red flag?

How can atoms be electrically neutral when there is a difference in the positions of the charges?

Canadian citizen, on US no-fly list. What can I do in order to be allowed on flights which go through US airspace?

Are small insurances worth it

Sometimes a banana is just a banana



Alameda and Belisario throwing a fair die.


a probability question about throwing an irregular fair dieRolling a fair dieComparing two probabilities of winning in two different dice-throwing scenariosThrowing of non-fair dicesDie roll, value of 4 must follow value of 1 to winProbability. Fair dice with $n>6$ sides. Who wins?Statistics throwing a dieProbability that A wins the gameconditional expectation number of throws given that until throwing only even numbersWhat is the probability of throwing 4 and then winning in craps?













6












$begingroup$



Alameda and Belisario alternate turns throwing a fair die. Alameda plays first and they continue throwing, one at a time, until the sequence 1-2-3 appears. Whoever throws the 3 is the winner. What is the probability that Belisario wins?




Hmmm - probabilities is not my strong domain!
First let's see what the chances are to get a 1-2-3 regardless who gets it.
Is it $1$ in $6*6*6$?



Then if this probability is p, my understanding is that the probability for Belisario to win is smaller, but I can't compute it :(










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$

















    6












    $begingroup$



    Alameda and Belisario alternate turns throwing a fair die. Alameda plays first and they continue throwing, one at a time, until the sequence 1-2-3 appears. Whoever throws the 3 is the winner. What is the probability that Belisario wins?




    Hmmm - probabilities is not my strong domain!
    First let's see what the chances are to get a 1-2-3 regardless who gets it.
    Is it $1$ in $6*6*6$?



    Then if this probability is p, my understanding is that the probability for Belisario to win is smaller, but I can't compute it :(










    share|cite|improve this question









    New contributor




    Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.







    $endgroup$















      6












      6








      6


      3



      $begingroup$



      Alameda and Belisario alternate turns throwing a fair die. Alameda plays first and they continue throwing, one at a time, until the sequence 1-2-3 appears. Whoever throws the 3 is the winner. What is the probability that Belisario wins?




      Hmmm - probabilities is not my strong domain!
      First let's see what the chances are to get a 1-2-3 regardless who gets it.
      Is it $1$ in $6*6*6$?



      Then if this probability is p, my understanding is that the probability for Belisario to win is smaller, but I can't compute it :(










      share|cite|improve this question









      New contributor




      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.







      $endgroup$





      Alameda and Belisario alternate turns throwing a fair die. Alameda plays first and they continue throwing, one at a time, until the sequence 1-2-3 appears. Whoever throws the 3 is the winner. What is the probability that Belisario wins?




      Hmmm - probabilities is not my strong domain!
      First let's see what the chances are to get a 1-2-3 regardless who gets it.
      Is it $1$ in $6*6*6$?



      Then if this probability is p, my understanding is that the probability for Belisario to win is smaller, but I can't compute it :(







      probability dice






      share|cite|improve this question









      New contributor




      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|cite|improve this question









      New contributor




      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited 3 hours ago









      GNUSupporter 8964民主女神 地下教會

      14k82650




      14k82650






      New contributor




      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 3 hours ago









      Raheem NabboutRaheem Nabbout

      363




      363




      New contributor




      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3












          $begingroup$

          Let's use states.



          We'll label a state according to how much of the $1,2,3$ chain has been completed and according to who's turn it is. Thus you start from $(A,emptyset)$, and the other states are $(B,emptyset),(X,1),(X,1,2)$ Win and Loss (Where $Xin {A,B}$. In a given state $S$ we let $p_S$ denote the probability that $B$ will win. Thus the answer you want is $P_{A,emptyset}$. In this way we have $6$ variables (since the probability from the Win, Loss are clear). Of course these variables are connected by simple linear equations.



          For instance $$P_{A,emptyset}=1-P_{B,emptyset}$$ and, more generally, $$P_{A,s}=1-P_{B,s}$$ where $s$ is any part of the sequence. Thus we are down to $3$ variables.



          (Why? Well, In the state $(A,emptyset)$, A is in the exact same position that $B$ is in in the state $(B,emptyset)$. Thus $A$ has the same probability of winning from $(A,emptyset)$ as $B$ has of winning from $(B,emptyset)$. Same with any $s$)



          Considering the first toss we see that $$P_{A,emptyset}=frac 16times P_{B,1}+frac 56times P_{B,emptyset}$$



          (Why? Well, $A$ either throws a $1$ or something else. The probability of throwing a $1$ is $frac 16$ and if that happens we move to $(B,1)$. If $A$ throws something else, probability $frac 56$, then we move to $(B,emptyset)$)



          Similarly: $$P_{B,1}=frac 16times P_{A,1,2}+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$ and $$P_{B,1,2}=frac 16times 1+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$



          (Why? Similar reasoning. Consider the possible throws $B$ might make and what states they each lead to).



          Solving this system we get the answer $$boxed {P_{A,emptyset}= frac {215}{431}approx .49884}$$



          Note: I used Wolfram alpha to solve this system but it's messy enough so that there could certainly have been a careless error. I'd check the calculation carefully.



          Sanity check: Or at least "intuition check". Given that this game is likely to go back and forth for quite a while before a winner is found, I'd have thought it was likely that the answer would be very close to $frac 12$. Of course, $A$ has a small advantage from starting first (it's possible that the first three tosses are $1,2,3$ after all), so I'd have expected an answer slightly less than $frac 12$.



          Worth remarking: sometimes intuition of that form can be a trap. After all, the temptation is to stop checking as soon as you get an answer that satisfies your intuition. In fact, the first time I ran this, I got an answer of $.51$ which seemed wrong. Worse, that solution showed that $P_{A,1,2}$ was about $.58$ which seemed absurd (how could $B$ have a strong advantage when $A$ is one toss away from winning?). So, I searched for and found the careless error. Second trial gave all plausible results so I checked casually and stopped. But you should do the computation again to be sure.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
            $endgroup$
            – Ingix
            56 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
            $endgroup$
            – lulu
            53 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
            $endgroup$
            – Raheem Nabbout
            37 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Ingix
            20 mins ago



















          1












          $begingroup$

          We have three probabilities to consider, all from the point of view of the player who is about to roll.



          $p_0$ is the probability of winning if no part of the winning sequence has been rolled. (This is Alameda's situation at the beginning of the game.) Call this situation state $0$.



          $p_1$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled at $1$. Call this situation state $1$.



          $p_2$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled $2$ and the roll immediately before that was $1,$ so that rolling a $3$ will win. Call this situation state $2$.



          Suppose no part of the sequence has been rolled. Then if you roll anything but a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $0$ and you will win if he loses; that is, you win with probability $1-p_0.$ If you roll a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $1,$ and again, you win if he loses. That is $$p_0=frac56(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)$$



          Similar considerations give $$p_1=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16(1-p_2)$$ and $$p_2=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16$$ where the last $frac16$ is the case where the roller wins by rolling $3$. We can write these equations more neatly as $$begin{align}
          11p_0+p_1+0p_2&=6\
          4p_0+7p_1+p_2&=6\
          4p_0+p_1+6p_2&=6
          end{align}$$



          (Sorry about the $0p_2$ in the first equation. I couldn't figure out how to format things.)



          Anyway, solve the system will for $p_0,p_1,p_2.$ Belasario's probability of winning is $1-p_0,$ which turns out to be $${215over431}$$



          EDIT



          I started typing this before lulu's answer was posted, but I'm such a slow typist that his answer had been up for a while before I finished. I'll leave it for a bit before deleting it, just so you can check if we have the same equations.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            });
            });
            }, "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });






            Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3135987%2falameda-and-belisario-throwing-a-fair-die%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            3












            $begingroup$

            Let's use states.



            We'll label a state according to how much of the $1,2,3$ chain has been completed and according to who's turn it is. Thus you start from $(A,emptyset)$, and the other states are $(B,emptyset),(X,1),(X,1,2)$ Win and Loss (Where $Xin {A,B}$. In a given state $S$ we let $p_S$ denote the probability that $B$ will win. Thus the answer you want is $P_{A,emptyset}$. In this way we have $6$ variables (since the probability from the Win, Loss are clear). Of course these variables are connected by simple linear equations.



            For instance $$P_{A,emptyset}=1-P_{B,emptyset}$$ and, more generally, $$P_{A,s}=1-P_{B,s}$$ where $s$ is any part of the sequence. Thus we are down to $3$ variables.



            (Why? Well, In the state $(A,emptyset)$, A is in the exact same position that $B$ is in in the state $(B,emptyset)$. Thus $A$ has the same probability of winning from $(A,emptyset)$ as $B$ has of winning from $(B,emptyset)$. Same with any $s$)



            Considering the first toss we see that $$P_{A,emptyset}=frac 16times P_{B,1}+frac 56times P_{B,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Well, $A$ either throws a $1$ or something else. The probability of throwing a $1$ is $frac 16$ and if that happens we move to $(B,1)$. If $A$ throws something else, probability $frac 56$, then we move to $(B,emptyset)$)



            Similarly: $$P_{B,1}=frac 16times P_{A,1,2}+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$ and $$P_{B,1,2}=frac 16times 1+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Similar reasoning. Consider the possible throws $B$ might make and what states they each lead to).



            Solving this system we get the answer $$boxed {P_{A,emptyset}= frac {215}{431}approx .49884}$$



            Note: I used Wolfram alpha to solve this system but it's messy enough so that there could certainly have been a careless error. I'd check the calculation carefully.



            Sanity check: Or at least "intuition check". Given that this game is likely to go back and forth for quite a while before a winner is found, I'd have thought it was likely that the answer would be very close to $frac 12$. Of course, $A$ has a small advantage from starting first (it's possible that the first three tosses are $1,2,3$ after all), so I'd have expected an answer slightly less than $frac 12$.



            Worth remarking: sometimes intuition of that form can be a trap. After all, the temptation is to stop checking as soon as you get an answer that satisfies your intuition. In fact, the first time I ran this, I got an answer of $.51$ which seemed wrong. Worse, that solution showed that $P_{A,1,2}$ was about $.58$ which seemed absurd (how could $B$ have a strong advantage when $A$ is one toss away from winning?). So, I searched for and found the careless error. Second trial gave all plausible results so I checked casually and stopped. But you should do the computation again to be sure.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              56 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
              $endgroup$
              – lulu
              53 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Raheem Nabbout
              37 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              20 mins ago
















            3












            $begingroup$

            Let's use states.



            We'll label a state according to how much of the $1,2,3$ chain has been completed and according to who's turn it is. Thus you start from $(A,emptyset)$, and the other states are $(B,emptyset),(X,1),(X,1,2)$ Win and Loss (Where $Xin {A,B}$. In a given state $S$ we let $p_S$ denote the probability that $B$ will win. Thus the answer you want is $P_{A,emptyset}$. In this way we have $6$ variables (since the probability from the Win, Loss are clear). Of course these variables are connected by simple linear equations.



            For instance $$P_{A,emptyset}=1-P_{B,emptyset}$$ and, more generally, $$P_{A,s}=1-P_{B,s}$$ where $s$ is any part of the sequence. Thus we are down to $3$ variables.



            (Why? Well, In the state $(A,emptyset)$, A is in the exact same position that $B$ is in in the state $(B,emptyset)$. Thus $A$ has the same probability of winning from $(A,emptyset)$ as $B$ has of winning from $(B,emptyset)$. Same with any $s$)



            Considering the first toss we see that $$P_{A,emptyset}=frac 16times P_{B,1}+frac 56times P_{B,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Well, $A$ either throws a $1$ or something else. The probability of throwing a $1$ is $frac 16$ and if that happens we move to $(B,1)$. If $A$ throws something else, probability $frac 56$, then we move to $(B,emptyset)$)



            Similarly: $$P_{B,1}=frac 16times P_{A,1,2}+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$ and $$P_{B,1,2}=frac 16times 1+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Similar reasoning. Consider the possible throws $B$ might make and what states they each lead to).



            Solving this system we get the answer $$boxed {P_{A,emptyset}= frac {215}{431}approx .49884}$$



            Note: I used Wolfram alpha to solve this system but it's messy enough so that there could certainly have been a careless error. I'd check the calculation carefully.



            Sanity check: Or at least "intuition check". Given that this game is likely to go back and forth for quite a while before a winner is found, I'd have thought it was likely that the answer would be very close to $frac 12$. Of course, $A$ has a small advantage from starting first (it's possible that the first three tosses are $1,2,3$ after all), so I'd have expected an answer slightly less than $frac 12$.



            Worth remarking: sometimes intuition of that form can be a trap. After all, the temptation is to stop checking as soon as you get an answer that satisfies your intuition. In fact, the first time I ran this, I got an answer of $.51$ which seemed wrong. Worse, that solution showed that $P_{A,1,2}$ was about $.58$ which seemed absurd (how could $B$ have a strong advantage when $A$ is one toss away from winning?). So, I searched for and found the careless error. Second trial gave all plausible results so I checked casually and stopped. But you should do the computation again to be sure.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              56 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
              $endgroup$
              – lulu
              53 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Raheem Nabbout
              37 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              20 mins ago














            3












            3








            3





            $begingroup$

            Let's use states.



            We'll label a state according to how much of the $1,2,3$ chain has been completed and according to who's turn it is. Thus you start from $(A,emptyset)$, and the other states are $(B,emptyset),(X,1),(X,1,2)$ Win and Loss (Where $Xin {A,B}$. In a given state $S$ we let $p_S$ denote the probability that $B$ will win. Thus the answer you want is $P_{A,emptyset}$. In this way we have $6$ variables (since the probability from the Win, Loss are clear). Of course these variables are connected by simple linear equations.



            For instance $$P_{A,emptyset}=1-P_{B,emptyset}$$ and, more generally, $$P_{A,s}=1-P_{B,s}$$ where $s$ is any part of the sequence. Thus we are down to $3$ variables.



            (Why? Well, In the state $(A,emptyset)$, A is in the exact same position that $B$ is in in the state $(B,emptyset)$. Thus $A$ has the same probability of winning from $(A,emptyset)$ as $B$ has of winning from $(B,emptyset)$. Same with any $s$)



            Considering the first toss we see that $$P_{A,emptyset}=frac 16times P_{B,1}+frac 56times P_{B,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Well, $A$ either throws a $1$ or something else. The probability of throwing a $1$ is $frac 16$ and if that happens we move to $(B,1)$. If $A$ throws something else, probability $frac 56$, then we move to $(B,emptyset)$)



            Similarly: $$P_{B,1}=frac 16times P_{A,1,2}+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$ and $$P_{B,1,2}=frac 16times 1+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Similar reasoning. Consider the possible throws $B$ might make and what states they each lead to).



            Solving this system we get the answer $$boxed {P_{A,emptyset}= frac {215}{431}approx .49884}$$



            Note: I used Wolfram alpha to solve this system but it's messy enough so that there could certainly have been a careless error. I'd check the calculation carefully.



            Sanity check: Or at least "intuition check". Given that this game is likely to go back and forth for quite a while before a winner is found, I'd have thought it was likely that the answer would be very close to $frac 12$. Of course, $A$ has a small advantage from starting first (it's possible that the first three tosses are $1,2,3$ after all), so I'd have expected an answer slightly less than $frac 12$.



            Worth remarking: sometimes intuition of that form can be a trap. After all, the temptation is to stop checking as soon as you get an answer that satisfies your intuition. In fact, the first time I ran this, I got an answer of $.51$ which seemed wrong. Worse, that solution showed that $P_{A,1,2}$ was about $.58$ which seemed absurd (how could $B$ have a strong advantage when $A$ is one toss away from winning?). So, I searched for and found the careless error. Second trial gave all plausible results so I checked casually and stopped. But you should do the computation again to be sure.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            Let's use states.



            We'll label a state according to how much of the $1,2,3$ chain has been completed and according to who's turn it is. Thus you start from $(A,emptyset)$, and the other states are $(B,emptyset),(X,1),(X,1,2)$ Win and Loss (Where $Xin {A,B}$. In a given state $S$ we let $p_S$ denote the probability that $B$ will win. Thus the answer you want is $P_{A,emptyset}$. In this way we have $6$ variables (since the probability from the Win, Loss are clear). Of course these variables are connected by simple linear equations.



            For instance $$P_{A,emptyset}=1-P_{B,emptyset}$$ and, more generally, $$P_{A,s}=1-P_{B,s}$$ where $s$ is any part of the sequence. Thus we are down to $3$ variables.



            (Why? Well, In the state $(A,emptyset)$, A is in the exact same position that $B$ is in in the state $(B,emptyset)$. Thus $A$ has the same probability of winning from $(A,emptyset)$ as $B$ has of winning from $(B,emptyset)$. Same with any $s$)



            Considering the first toss we see that $$P_{A,emptyset}=frac 16times P_{B,1}+frac 56times P_{B,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Well, $A$ either throws a $1$ or something else. The probability of throwing a $1$ is $frac 16$ and if that happens we move to $(B,1)$. If $A$ throws something else, probability $frac 56$, then we move to $(B,emptyset)$)



            Similarly: $$P_{B,1}=frac 16times P_{A,1,2}+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$ and $$P_{B,1,2}=frac 16times 1+frac 16times P_{A,1}+frac 46times P_{A,emptyset}$$



            (Why? Similar reasoning. Consider the possible throws $B$ might make and what states they each lead to).



            Solving this system we get the answer $$boxed {P_{A,emptyset}= frac {215}{431}approx .49884}$$



            Note: I used Wolfram alpha to solve this system but it's messy enough so that there could certainly have been a careless error. I'd check the calculation carefully.



            Sanity check: Or at least "intuition check". Given that this game is likely to go back and forth for quite a while before a winner is found, I'd have thought it was likely that the answer would be very close to $frac 12$. Of course, $A$ has a small advantage from starting first (it's possible that the first three tosses are $1,2,3$ after all), so I'd have expected an answer slightly less than $frac 12$.



            Worth remarking: sometimes intuition of that form can be a trap. After all, the temptation is to stop checking as soon as you get an answer that satisfies your intuition. In fact, the first time I ran this, I got an answer of $.51$ which seemed wrong. Worse, that solution showed that $P_{A,1,2}$ was about $.58$ which seemed absurd (how could $B$ have a strong advantage when $A$ is one toss away from winning?). So, I searched for and found the careless error. Second trial gave all plausible results so I checked casually and stopped. But you should do the computation again to be sure.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited 48 mins ago

























            answered 1 hour ago









            lulululu

            42.8k25080




            42.8k25080












            • $begingroup$
              Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              56 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
              $endgroup$
              – lulu
              53 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Raheem Nabbout
              37 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              20 mins ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              56 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
              $endgroup$
              – lulu
              53 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
              $endgroup$
              – Raheem Nabbout
              37 mins ago










            • $begingroup$
              saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Ingix
              20 mins ago
















            $begingroup$
            Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
            $endgroup$
            – Ingix
            56 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            Did the same approach, got the same equations, solved them manually and got the same results, so at this stage there shouldn't be an error. OTOH, you might want to clarify a bit how you got the equations, as that is not easy to see if you never did such a problem before.
            $endgroup$
            – Ingix
            56 mins ago












            $begingroup$
            @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
            $endgroup$
            – lulu
            53 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            @Ingix Thanks for confirming. I agree some more words would help...I'll think on it a bit and edit.
            $endgroup$
            – lulu
            53 mins ago












            $begingroup$
            @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
            $endgroup$
            – Raheem Nabbout
            37 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            @Ingix and Lulu, both solutions were great! Thank you!
            $endgroup$
            – Raheem Nabbout
            37 mins ago












            $begingroup$
            saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Ingix
            20 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            saulspatz was the other answer giver. I was just too late and started typing my answer (just 1 sentence yet) when lulu's appreared, so I could comment on his but didn't continue with my answer.
            $endgroup$
            – Ingix
            20 mins ago











            1












            $begingroup$

            We have three probabilities to consider, all from the point of view of the player who is about to roll.



            $p_0$ is the probability of winning if no part of the winning sequence has been rolled. (This is Alameda's situation at the beginning of the game.) Call this situation state $0$.



            $p_1$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled at $1$. Call this situation state $1$.



            $p_2$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled $2$ and the roll immediately before that was $1,$ so that rolling a $3$ will win. Call this situation state $2$.



            Suppose no part of the sequence has been rolled. Then if you roll anything but a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $0$ and you will win if he loses; that is, you win with probability $1-p_0.$ If you roll a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $1,$ and again, you win if he loses. That is $$p_0=frac56(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)$$



            Similar considerations give $$p_1=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16(1-p_2)$$ and $$p_2=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16$$ where the last $frac16$ is the case where the roller wins by rolling $3$. We can write these equations more neatly as $$begin{align}
            11p_0+p_1+0p_2&=6\
            4p_0+7p_1+p_2&=6\
            4p_0+p_1+6p_2&=6
            end{align}$$



            (Sorry about the $0p_2$ in the first equation. I couldn't figure out how to format things.)



            Anyway, solve the system will for $p_0,p_1,p_2.$ Belasario's probability of winning is $1-p_0,$ which turns out to be $${215over431}$$



            EDIT



            I started typing this before lulu's answer was posted, but I'm such a slow typist that his answer had been up for a while before I finished. I'll leave it for a bit before deleting it, just so you can check if we have the same equations.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$


















              1












              $begingroup$

              We have three probabilities to consider, all from the point of view of the player who is about to roll.



              $p_0$ is the probability of winning if no part of the winning sequence has been rolled. (This is Alameda's situation at the beginning of the game.) Call this situation state $0$.



              $p_1$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled at $1$. Call this situation state $1$.



              $p_2$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled $2$ and the roll immediately before that was $1,$ so that rolling a $3$ will win. Call this situation state $2$.



              Suppose no part of the sequence has been rolled. Then if you roll anything but a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $0$ and you will win if he loses; that is, you win with probability $1-p_0.$ If you roll a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $1,$ and again, you win if he loses. That is $$p_0=frac56(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)$$



              Similar considerations give $$p_1=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16(1-p_2)$$ and $$p_2=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16$$ where the last $frac16$ is the case where the roller wins by rolling $3$. We can write these equations more neatly as $$begin{align}
              11p_0+p_1+0p_2&=6\
              4p_0+7p_1+p_2&=6\
              4p_0+p_1+6p_2&=6
              end{align}$$



              (Sorry about the $0p_2$ in the first equation. I couldn't figure out how to format things.)



              Anyway, solve the system will for $p_0,p_1,p_2.$ Belasario's probability of winning is $1-p_0,$ which turns out to be $${215over431}$$



              EDIT



              I started typing this before lulu's answer was posted, but I'm such a slow typist that his answer had been up for a while before I finished. I'll leave it for a bit before deleting it, just so you can check if we have the same equations.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$
















                1












                1








                1





                $begingroup$

                We have three probabilities to consider, all from the point of view of the player who is about to roll.



                $p_0$ is the probability of winning if no part of the winning sequence has been rolled. (This is Alameda's situation at the beginning of the game.) Call this situation state $0$.



                $p_1$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled at $1$. Call this situation state $1$.



                $p_2$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled $2$ and the roll immediately before that was $1,$ so that rolling a $3$ will win. Call this situation state $2$.



                Suppose no part of the sequence has been rolled. Then if you roll anything but a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $0$ and you will win if he loses; that is, you win with probability $1-p_0.$ If you roll a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $1,$ and again, you win if he loses. That is $$p_0=frac56(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)$$



                Similar considerations give $$p_1=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16(1-p_2)$$ and $$p_2=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16$$ where the last $frac16$ is the case where the roller wins by rolling $3$. We can write these equations more neatly as $$begin{align}
                11p_0+p_1+0p_2&=6\
                4p_0+7p_1+p_2&=6\
                4p_0+p_1+6p_2&=6
                end{align}$$



                (Sorry about the $0p_2$ in the first equation. I couldn't figure out how to format things.)



                Anyway, solve the system will for $p_0,p_1,p_2.$ Belasario's probability of winning is $1-p_0,$ which turns out to be $${215over431}$$



                EDIT



                I started typing this before lulu's answer was posted, but I'm such a slow typist that his answer had been up for a while before I finished. I'll leave it for a bit before deleting it, just so you can check if we have the same equations.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                We have three probabilities to consider, all from the point of view of the player who is about to roll.



                $p_0$ is the probability of winning if no part of the winning sequence has been rolled. (This is Alameda's situation at the beginning of the game.) Call this situation state $0$.



                $p_1$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled at $1$. Call this situation state $1$.



                $p_2$ is the probability of winning if the opponent has just rolled $2$ and the roll immediately before that was $1,$ so that rolling a $3$ will win. Call this situation state $2$.



                Suppose no part of the sequence has been rolled. Then if you roll anything but a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $0$ and you will win if he loses; that is, you win with probability $1-p_0.$ If you roll a $1,$ your opponent will be in state $1,$ and again, you win if he loses. That is $$p_0=frac56(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)$$



                Similar considerations give $$p_1=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16(1-p_2)$$ and $$p_2=frac46(1-p_0)+frac16(1-p_1)+frac16$$ where the last $frac16$ is the case where the roller wins by rolling $3$. We can write these equations more neatly as $$begin{align}
                11p_0+p_1+0p_2&=6\
                4p_0+7p_1+p_2&=6\
                4p_0+p_1+6p_2&=6
                end{align}$$



                (Sorry about the $0p_2$ in the first equation. I couldn't figure out how to format things.)



                Anyway, solve the system will for $p_0,p_1,p_2.$ Belasario's probability of winning is $1-p_0,$ which turns out to be $${215over431}$$



                EDIT



                I started typing this before lulu's answer was posted, but I'm such a slow typist that his answer had been up for a while before I finished. I'll leave it for a bit before deleting it, just so you can check if we have the same equations.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited 47 mins ago

























                answered 53 mins ago









                saulspatzsaulspatz

                16.1k31331




                16.1k31331






















                    Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                    draft saved

                    draft discarded


















                    Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                    Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                    Raheem Nabbout is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3135987%2falameda-and-belisario-throwing-a-fair-die%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    As a Security Precaution, the user account has been locked The Next CEO of Stack OverflowMS...

                    Список ссавців Італії Природоохоронні статуси | Список |...

                    Українські прізвища Зміст Історичні відомості |...